Curse

Arkantos · Nov 17, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanturkey

^^ but anet's one large oversight is that by now, they're not getting that many new players in their game, and the vast majority of the people playing are those who have already beaten the game. so when the rewards are so slim, there's little incentive to pick up the story missions again.

had they done this 3 years ago, everyone would be on board with it, but now, not so much.

The older players are still greatly benefiting from this. People still create new characters and play through the game, people still go through the game in HM to get guardian, people still vanquish.

Yes, it would have been absolutely amazing when Guild Wars came out, but it's still a great update now. It doesn't benefit anyone with protector/guardian/vanquisher titles (which sucks for them), but it benefits everyone else.

Calista Blackblood · Nov 17, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The older players are still greatly benefiting from this. People still create new characters and play through the game, people still go through the game in HM to get guardian, people still vanquish.

Yes, it would have been absolutely amazing when Guild Wars came out, but it's still a great update now. It doesn't benefit anyone with protector/guardian/vanquisher titles (which sucks for them), but it benefits everyone else.

This is what I did. Already had 2 low level chars (para and ele) that i'm working through factions with.Grabbed Shiro's Return and went for it,the best part is pugs have largely returned and I get the benefit of cashing in books.

I take back my other comments in this thread (I think) i'm embracing the change and not seeing it as screwing older players.Changes that revived the game somewhat and added benefits are better than empty outposts and extremely boring HFFF

Less QQing on forums more killing imo

cataphract · Nov 17, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

The update is great. The weekend was great.

Just by vanquishing Morostav Trail, DVDF was able to amass enough Kurzick faction to gain control of Eredon Terrace once the border shifted. Which I found weird since the alliance is not big and there are 50 people that play regularly. Morostav vanquish gives a bit over 30k faction for a vanquish of 40 minutes. My Kurzick title increased by 1 million over the course of this weekend. Great stuff.

Also, loving the account-wide Wisdom and TH. It feels great when you're able to ID stuff with a less-played character. And salvage items without destroying them. The only update better than this one was the Sorrow's Furnace one. Vgg aNet.

Fril Estelin · Nov 17, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

I take back my other comments in this thread (I think) i'm embracing the change and not seeing it as screwing older players.Changes that revived the game somewhat and added benefits are better than empty outposts and extremely boring HFFF

Great post Calista BlackBlood. This social dimension of games has always been part of all videogames but it's much stronger in online games/MMOs. As I said in the thread "the downfall of GW", the community can make the game "good" or "bad" for itself, and I surely hope that this renewed pugging phenomenon goes on for a little while (it'll fade, like all things). A few other updates of this quality during the next 6-12 months and the game should be back on its feet, sort of (WTB PvP update of this quality).

Oh, btw, "veteran" players also benefited with the TH/wisdom account-wide titles, the highest rewards for vanquishing/challenge&competitive&elite missions, increased faction caps, and all the little things that Linsey prepared for all of us with love.

Abedeus · Nov 17, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

btw, "veteran" players

New players have that too.

So. We have only TH/Wisdom, vanq/challenge/elite missions and increased faction caps.

New players have everything WE have + they don't have to repeat all missions again for 6th time to get a single reward.

Ctb · Nov 17, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Huh... LOTRO's entire new expansion or a few new numbers in Guild Wars as I replay it for the upteenth time?

<sarcasm>Tough decision.</sarcasm>

The rest of ya'll enjoy, though, if that's your thing.

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 17, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

What if someone has done it already 6-7 times and is bored with every single piece of any of the missions?

If they are that bored why are they still playing?

Esan · Nov 17, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

If they are that bored why are they still playing?

Why do you think that they are still playing?

Kha · Nov 17, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

If they are that bored why are they still playing?

There are other things to do than just missions...

Miss Puddles · Nov 17, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

So. We have only TH/Wisdom, vanq/challenge/elite missions and increased faction caps.

New players have everything WE have + they don't have to repeat all missions again for 6th time to get a single reward.

same reaction that there is to every major update like this.

the changes we've been asking for for years finally arrives and people can't even be happy that they changed what we wanted, and can only focus on this mentality: other people get more than me pouty pouty pout.

Chris616263 · Nov 17, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

They decided not to allow people to pay to add pages because they were concerned about the negative effects on the economy.

I'm sorry, but every word in that sentence just set off my BS detector. I'd like to hear a response from Linsey instead of the company puppet who's too lazy to do anything but update her personal blog.

FoxBat · Nov 17, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris616263

I'm sorry, but every word in that sentence just set off my BS detector. I'd like to hear a response from Linsey instead of the company puppet who's too lazy to do anything but update her personal blog.

Near everyone gets an instant 50k just for logging on. Not just the pro farmer types who can do that in an hour, but every single joe shmoe whining about the cost of 15k armor. That's a huge sudden cash influx that could cause a temporary inflation on the player market. I don't have the demographics to estimate how much of an impact, but it's a plausible concern.

Before some simpleton talks about Zaishen Keys from Xunlai, you can't sell them to merchants for 5k, and you mostly get brulees/firewines that conveniently sell for nothing. ZKeys were cleverly designed to redistribute money between players rather than introducing a new gold influx, which preserves existing prices. Even the best farming methods are still focused on procuring player-desired things instead of merching white junk.

Ctb · Nov 18, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

the changes we've been asking for for years finally arrives and people can't even be happy that they changed what we wanted, and can only focus on this mentality: other people get more than me pouty pouty pout.

Alternatively, maybe some people think that having to wait "for years" for a few numbers to change on a database table attached to a game most of us have already played through several times is unreasonable...

I wish they'd just cut the crap and open source the damn engine. It's been pretty clear since Reskin of the North that they have no intention to do anything worthwhile with this game anymore, and it sure would be nice if players could start making some actual content for it.

I mean... come on. You've got to be kidding me. They changed a couple of numbers on some database tables, slapped a few book sprites in the data files, and wrote a few new basic scripts for old missions using a game mechanic that was added in the BMP. This is the big bad update?

I can't believe anyone still falls for this crap. If you like it, fine, more power to you, but quit acting like they did anything significant here.

Shinka · Nov 18, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

It is a great update. I am glad that they back date the factions to old players who had completed those missions but i think there is 1 problem, they suddenly dump all luxon and kurzick pts to the acc. And we have the decide which 1 to donate and the other faction will be wasted. Just my view.

HawkofStorms · Nov 18, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

I wish they'd just cut the crap and open source the damn engine

Pfft.. that will happen. If you guys are going to qq, at least don't make such RIDICULOUS statements when you do. By the way, clearly you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to computer programing. You really think all these updates where just a flip of the switch?

Anyway, PUGs are definately up. People are playing. People have been wanting some of these titles account wide for a while.

No one should complain. Nothing in this update was determental. The only "bad" thing is that players get less free rewards then they were hoping on getting, which is just stupid greed rearing its ugly head. And I have yet to see the "mass complaining in game from veteran players" that some people in this thread predicted. Everybody I've talked to has loved this update. Oh well... only on guru.

Takeko Nakano · Nov 18, 2008, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Puddles

same reaction that there is to every major update like this.

the changes we've been asking for for years finally arrives and people can't even be happy that they changed what we wanted, and can only focus on this mentality: other people get more than me pouty pouty pout.

If you're talking about the wisdom title track, it's nice but I doubt that people mind that much about it. We're talking about the books, where the time-period of COURSE affects its usefulness. If you've done the campaigns to death having a book isn't going to easily make you want to play again.

I think this post proves my point - the critics of the update critics are putting up pro-forma replies without reading the complaints of others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

No one should complain. Nothing in this update was determental.

What kind of ridiculous logic is that? So if ANet only ever update bugs and changes nothing about the game, no one can complain because it isn't "detrimental"? Ridiculous!

Fril Estelin · Nov 18, 2008, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

which is just stupid greed rearing its ugly head.

Yeah, for some of them it seems so and I agree that it's ugly. There are also a few others that want some love from Anet (even despite Linsey said she loves us

).

Riot Narita · Nov 18, 2008, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

What kind of ridiculous logic is that? So if ANet only ever update bugs and changes nothing about the game, no one can complain because it isn't "detrimental"? Ridiculous!

A-net didn't just update bugs. A-net didn't change "nothing" about the game. They changed PLENTY in this update.

And indeed, none of it is detrimental. After the update, people have the same as they had before or more, and there are great improvements to the game. Exactly as HawkofStorms said. Nothing wrong with his logic. Unlike your logic - you think we should complain, when there is nothing to complain about?

As he and MissPuddles said, there is simply nothing to complain about - only greedy people who got stuff for free, but still want more. And who don't want other people to get something now, that they didn't get before.

Shasgaliel · Nov 18, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris616263

I'm sorry, but every word in that sentence just set off my BS detector. I'd like to hear a response from Linsey instead of the company puppet who's too lazy to do anything but update her personal blog.

Answer from Linsey was exactly the same. It was copied in this thread some pages ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

I think this post proves my point - the critics of the update critics are putting up pro-forma replies without reading the complaints of others.

It does not prove it. Reading and understanding someones concerns does not mean that we have to accept and support them. I also do not agree with the logic "you are against our complaining because you do not understand/read/whatever". Please.... I can say you are complaining because you do not get arguments and you do not read them... This kind of reasoning goes nowhere I am afraid.

I do not think providing rewards to people who did something in the past is justified. I think it is asking for too much.

I will use example of projects. If there is a project which gives a given amount of money for its completion and this money is now increases. Does it mean that all the contractors who did the project in the past should get the difference?

If the contractor would like to receive this new higher reward he has to perform the project again. You may argue that the new contractor will get higher reward and it is not just... But surprisingly it is. That is how the business and economy works and how was working before and there is a reason it is this way. Old one can get reward as well if he wishes to and that to my opinion should suffice. In rl a firm which will have to pay something retroactively would be just killed by simple inflation or by wages increase.

Can you imagine what would happen to an university which increased money it gives to well performing students? Do you really think they should pay this additional money to all hard working students which were given money in the past? Isn't it normal that those things tend to increase with time?

If the retroactive rewards were added anywhere in the real economy we would have a serious financial crisis in a few days... That is why argument that it was bad for in game economy is understandable in this case. It is not only about too much gold inflow during the time where there is too much of it already. It is also about players who will expect retroactivity in all future changes as was shown by examples from EoTN.

so to list the problems/justification I see with it:
1. Too much gold inflow.
2. Creating expectations that all new stuff should be retroactive
3. No technical possibility to do it in a just way (why someone who did all the missions 60 times on one charr should get the same reward as the person who did it once) - leading to even more complaints and problems.
4. Everyone now gets the same reward if he/she attempts to do it. So everyone starts from the same point.
and so on and so on.

Believe me most of the people do understand why so many people do not like the lack of the rewards for things done before the update, we just think it is asking for too much and not necessary for the reasons mentioned above and not only for those.

Amazing in this discussion is that if anet did not introduce any book at all, there would be no issue. Did they gave us too much then?????

DreamWind · Nov 18, 2008, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris616263

I'm sorry, but every word in that sentence just set off my BS detector. I'd like to hear a response from Linsey instead of the company puppet who's too lazy to do anything but update her personal blog.

Yea I agree 100%. Almost everything out of Linsey and Regina on this matter has been logically shown to be false...which is why I am stunned they have so many apologists on this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

so to list the problems/justification I see with it:

1. Too much gold inflow.

False, as was pointed out by several people such as Cluebag.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

2. Creating expectations that all new stuff should be retroactive

Almost everything previously has been retroactive, why shouldn't this be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

3. No technical possibility to do it in a just way (why someone who did all the missions 60 times on one charr should get the same reward as the person who did it once) - leading to even more complaints and problems.

There is a perfect way as has been pointed out several times. Let people with the title turn in the book once or twice depending on the title. Simple, and we know Anet has the ability to do it. Also stop with the "oh people who did it 60 times" argument. We aren't talking about that exagerrated example because it is stupidly rare. But it is NOT stupidly rare to have the titles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

4. Everyone now gets the same reward if he/she attempts to do it. So everyone starts from the same point.
and so on and so on.

No...now everybody who has already spent craploads of time doing the missions get slapped in the face because people who have done none of the missions get the same rewards for less work.